Episode #20 of “Becoming a post-growth planner: obstacles and challenges to changing roles and practices” with Prof Dr Thomas Hartmann (TU Dortmund University, Germany). In conversation with Dr Christian Lamker (University of Groningen, the Netherlands). You might want to read into the following works that are related to this episode: Lacoere, P., Hengstermann, A., Jehling, M., & Hartmann, T. (2023). Compensating Downzoning. A Comparative Analysis of European Compensation Schemes in the Light of Net Land Neutrality. Planning Theory & Practice, 24(2), 190–206. https://doi.org/10.1080/14649357.2023.2190152 Gerber, J.‑D., Hartmann, T., & Hengstermann, A. (Eds.). (2018). Instruments of land policy: Dealing with scarcity of land. Routledge. https://doi.org/10.4324/9781315511658 van Straalen, F., Hartmann, T., & Sheehan, J. (Eds.). (2020). Routledge complex real property rights series. Property rights and climate change: Land use under changing environmental conditions. Routledge. https://doi.org/10.4324/9781315520094 Needham, B., Buitelaar, E., & Hartmann, T. (2018). Planning, Law and Economics: The Rules We Make for Using Land (Second edition). The RTPI library series. Routledge. https://doi.org/10.4324/9781315111278 Hartmann, T. (2012). Wicked problems and clumsy solutions: Planning as expectation management. Planning Theory, 11(3), 242–256. https://doi.org/10.1177/1473095212440427 This episode is also available on YouTube (channel: @postgrowthplan).