We have enjoyed chatting to Lucy Trueman, the Managing Director of TruemanChange in the past so we asked her to come back and become the guest with the highest number of appearances (3) at the moment. Lucy's expertise in managing significant projects for many public sector organisations including local authorities makes her a fascinating and well informed guest. This episode is all about Leadership with only short coverage of this week's education events. Lucy and Stan begin to unpick the lazy narrative that focuses on what leadership is and offer a much more nuanced and humane insight. It is worth listening/watching and considering whether other school staff should also give the Frank and Stan Chat a go? We all have to lead in our lives, some with greater responsibility than others, but this chat may help with a reconsideration of what is more effective. Enjoy, Stan and Frank really did.

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