In this episode Sam Shah and I converse on the topic of complexity in digital health, the tendency to tip into chaos and the fact that things are rarely just complicated. Sam is a well known figure in digital health. In addition to his practice as a dentist, he's chief medical officer at Numan, senior adviser at Freuds, visiting lecturer at UCL and has a host of other roles besides. Sam reflects on his time at NHS England and chats about the role of central bodies in enabling adoption and spread of digital technologies. We chat about his experience of commissioning user-centred design in redesign of urgent and emergency care services. Sam makes the case for decoupling strategy from changes in ministerial and leadership positions - the chaos that ensues from sudden shifts in strategy can result in very little getting done. We chat about the sorry state of the digital health market place and look to complexity faced by startups and medium sized companies working with the NHS. We finish up thinking about how underestimating complexity in digital technology implementation can result in chaos.

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